Author Topic: Rules Wizard Exam - Question 4  (Read 903 times)

Anita Margarita

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Rules Wizard Exam - Question 4
« on: October 03, 2017, 02:39:50 PM »
SASS Rules Wizard Exam - Question 4
------------------------------------------------

How many penalties and why?

Beep!

With your rifle you complete your 10-shot continuous Nevada Sweep. You put the rifle down, open and empty.

The pistol sequence is a continuous Nevada Sweep.  With your first pistol, you are you have fired 4 shots, when the last round does not go off. Maybe your thumb slipped off the hammer…. You cock, click, cock, click, cock, click, etc, etc… forget it(!) you have lost count.  You put the gun back in your holster. With your second pistol, you continue the sweep, but you are a little confused… it seems like you ended up on the wrong target.

You move on to the shotgun.  The first two shells turn out to be black powder!  You are signed up for Senior category, not Frontier Cartridge, but somehow you got some black powder SG shells mixed in.  Oh, well, keep shooting through the smoke.  All four targets down.

Stage over.   The TO tells you he thinks you have one more round in your second pistol and he knows you have one in the first pistol.  He sends you to the unloading table.

The TO polls the counters.  The first counter says, “Two misses ... the two unfired rounds” and the two others are both holding up three fingers.  The second counter says, “Three misses:  the unfired rounds and a rifle shot,” and the third counter says, “Three misses: the unfired rounds, plus another pistol miss.  I did not see any miss with the rifle.”

Your stage time is 34.38.  What is the total time?  (Show your work.)

A) 39.38
B) 44.38
B*)49.38
C) 54.38
D) 64.38
E) SDQ
F) Not enough information to answer (Explain)
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 03:23:05 PM by Anita Margarita »

Jackalope

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Re: Rules Wizard Exam - Question 4
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2017, 09:37:58 AM »
OK, I'll take a crack at it.

Rifle and shotgun sequences are OK.  Burning a little black powder in a smokeless category is not a rule violation.

Assuming all handgun rounds hit the targets in a continuous Nevada-sweep, excluding un-fired round(s), and assuming the timer operator was correct that there was a loaded round left in each revolver...so far it looks like a five second penalty for each un-fired round. 

All three spotters agree on two un-fired rounds, only one says rifle miss, and only one says an extra handgun miss...it still looks like a five second penalty for each un-fired round.

My guess on the total time is "B"...44.38...so far.

I don't know what they will discover at the  unloading table.  Exactly where will they find those live cartridges?
Jedi Gunfighter Lucky #7
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Uncle Ethan

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Re: Rules Wizard Exam - Question 4
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2017, 12:04:41 PM »
The only thing I disagree with on Jackalop's answer is the misses. Two said three misses. I don't recall the counters having to agree with what the misses were. So that would make the time 49.38 and that's not an answer, so I must be wrong.  ::).
Jedi Gunfighter #287
"Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything. In a gun fight... You need to take your time in a hurry."
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Anita Margarita

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Re: Rules Wizard Exam - Question 4
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2017, 03:13:22 PM »
Uncle Ethan - I should have included 49.38 as an option (I'll fix that), since I am not sure exactly what the rule is about counters agreeing.  I know that if those two counters had just said "Three misses," it would have been three misses.  But if they pipe up with what they saw and they do not agree, does that change the call?

AM
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 03:23:22 PM by Anita Margarita »

Jackalope

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Re: Rules Wizard Exam - Question 4
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2017, 05:29:22 PM »
Uncle Ethan,

On the surface of it, I agree.  If the TO looks up to see two of the spotters holding up three fingers and the other holding up two fingers, it's a simple call.

From SASS RO-1, "It is up to the Timer Operator to verify at least two of the three Spotters agree on misses."

If they hadn't mentioned their difference of opinion, I wouldn't have questioned them.  But, since they brought it up, it's up to the TO to confirm that at least two of them agree.  In this scenario, the only thing any of them agree on is two un-fired rounds.  I would give benefit of the doubt to the shooter...and suggest the spotters watch more closely or find relief.

Again, that's just my take on it.  I'll be interested to hear some other thoughts on this one.
Jedi Gunfighter Lucky #7
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Jackalope

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Re: Rules Wizard Exam - Question 4
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2017, 10:33:54 AM »
Anyone else have thoughts on this?

This could really get into the weeds.

Imagine a shooter politely asking, "What did I miss?" 

One spotter said, "Two rifle targets."

Another spotter said, "Two handgun targets."

Third spotter said, "I had you clean on that one."

How do you score that?


Jedi Gunfighter Lucky #7
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Tombstone

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Re: Rules Wizard Exam - Question 4
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2017, 11:06:51 AM »
Can of worms to say the least. I have thoughts but will wait to see what the TG forum says

I posted this on the TG wire just now so should have many answers shortly.

Uncle Ethan

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Re: Rules Wizard Exam - Question 4
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2017, 03:24:05 PM »
Benefit of doubt goes to shooter. If spotters called different misses then no call? Can the.TO have a say?
Jedi Gunfighter #287
"Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything. In a gun fight... You need to take your time in a hurry."
Wyatt Earp