Author Topic: Rule Clarification: New info from TG Meeting at EOT 2016  (Read 4283 times)

Anita Margarita

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Rule Clarification: New info from TG Meeting at EOT 2016
« on: July 10, 2016, 10:35:21 PM »
Some rules clarifications were decided at the TG meeting held at EOT last month. The first few of these could have significant ramifications:

Starting in a faulted position:  The decision has been made and a clarification will be addressed in the ROI handbook that failure on the shooter to start in the correct starting position or location will be scored a Procedural, not a reshoot.  (Example:  If the starting position is with a firearm in hands and the shooter starts with the firearm on the table, then it is scored as a Procedural, not a reshoot. Just because the shooter picks up the firearm after the beep, it is not considered corrected.)

ROI, p. 6, 5.f. (Timer Operator): “The Timer Operator never starts a competitor in a faulted position or location. It is not considered a faulted position or location for allowing a shooter to start without appropriately loaded guns or available ammunition on their person.” 
 
Standing upright: If shooter is to start with hands on hat or other stance, they must remain standing upright until after the beep, unless stage instructions indicate otherwise.  (Example: Just because the scenario states to point 1 hand downrange does not mean the shooter can have the other hand on the gun or bend down over the gun, unless stage instructions state otherwise. The other hand must be at SASS default, at side not touching guns and shooter must be standing upright.)

Safety checks: Unloading table officers should check that they can see the follower to ensure there is no ammo in the magazine (rifle and shotguns). Look for rounds in the magazine and have shooter work the action of a ’97. (Note: The appropriate penalty is a SDQ for failure to follow LT/ULT procedures.

Following is the long-standing rule, from p.9 of the ROI. “At the Unloading Table, competitors shall unload each of their firearms, and the Unloading Officer must visually inspect all chambers to make sure they are empty. Rifles and shotguns are cycled to verify their magazines are empty.”  This includes 87 shotguns too.

Hats: Classic Cowboy/Cowgirl and B-Western (ladies and men) are required to wear hats on their heads, not hanging by a stampede from your string or anywhere else. This is already a rule; just a clarification.
 
Carrying of shotshell ammo: One cannot carry SG ammo on holsters for later use. It is considered illegally acquired ammo. (Note: It is okay to carry shot shell ammo on the holster belt, just not on the holster itself. Pistol/rifle loops on the holster are legal. )

SHB, p. 22, (Range Operations): “The penalty for using "illegally acquired" ammunition (i.e., NOT carried to the line/staged by the shooter in an approved manner) is a PROCEDURAL. Any targets hit using that ammo are scored as MISSES.”
 
B-Western pistol style: B-Western shooters can change their pistol shooting style in the middle of the pistol string. This is already a rule; just a clarification.   (Example: Shooter can start shooting gunfighter for 5 rounds, place pistols on table to shoot a long gun and then shoot each gun in a traditional style.)
 
Wild Bunch: Shooters can shoot Henry Big Boy rifles now.

Keystone

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Re: Rule Clarification: New info from TG Meeting at EOT 2016
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2016, 08:37:26 AM »
Howdy,

Starting in a Faulted Position = Procedure Penalty: Seems to take the responsibility off the Timer/ Operator and places it on clearly on the Shooter.

Standing Upright: So, not starting standing upright will be a "Faulted Starting Position" earning a Procedural. I see this being a difficult change for many shooters who have been using crouching starting positions for many years. Going to be a tough transition to the new rule for shooters and Timer Operators. Also, shooters have different shooting stances with feet placed in various positions. So, standing upright with feet close together or feet spread wide will not look the same even when both shooters are standing upright.

Do these changes/clarifications take immediate effect? I try to keep up on the rules by reading posts on local forums and the SASS Wire. But, there are so many rules and clarifications sometimes it gets down right frustrating. I guess we'll all just have to save copies of the Handbooks & clarifications on our period correct smart phones.

Hasta Luego, Keystone
Never get in a gunfight with seven men when you only have a six-shooter. W.J. Vogel

Ocoee Red

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Re: Rule Clarification: New info from TG Meeting at EOT 2016
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2016, 08:43:53 AM »
Yes Keystone, these rules went into effect at EOT.

Keystone

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Re: Rule Clarification: New info from TG Meeting at EOT 2016
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2016, 10:10:45 AM »
Well,

This could get interesting at Black Gold this weekend. Hopefully they will address the Stand Upright issue at the shooters meeting so all shooters & Timer Operators will be aware and the rule enforced evenly for everyone.

Keystone
Never get in a gunfight with seven men when you only have a six-shooter. W.J. Vogel

Anita Margarita

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Re: Rule Clarification: New info from TG Meeting at EOT 2016
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2016, 01:25:12 PM »
Odd that this has not turned into a 5 page discussion on the SASS Wire...  Actually, no mention of it at all yet.

The biggest failing of SASS in my opinion is the lack of a single source/book/notification method for rules.  It is ridiculous.

I agree, Keystone, how is this going to be enforced (or not) at Black Gold (or any of the other annuals this weekend) when probably 80% of the people there will never have heard of it?   

AM

Ocoee Red

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Re: Rule Clarification: New info from TG Meeting at EOT 2016
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2016, 04:05:11 PM »
Odd that this has not turned into a 5 page discussion on the SASS Wire...  Actually, no mention of it at all yet.

The biggest failing of SASS in my opinion is the lack of a single source/book/notification method for rules.  It is ridiculous.

I agree, Keystone, how is this going to be enforced (or not) at Black Gold (or any of the other annuals this weekend) when probably 80% of the people there will never have heard of it?   

AM

I agree (ridiculous) we need a single source/book for ALL rules. Having 3 books now along with stage conventions and yearly updates is/has been a joke in my opinion.

It will be interesting at BG this weekend as you say.

Tombstone

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Re: Rule Clarification: New info from TG Meeting at EOT 2016
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2016, 04:40:58 PM »
We will address it at Black Gold, we talked about it last night.

Anita Margarita

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Re: Rule Clarification: New info from TG Meeting at EOT 2016
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2016, 11:29:01 AM »
For anyone not at Black Gold, the announcement was made at the Safety Meeting that the new clarification about stance would not be in effect at that match - stand any way you want.

Based on the current discussion on the SASS Wire, I suspect that (some/many) stage writers will merely write in an extra bit on (some/every) stage saying that your posture does not matter. 

I am curious to see if the ROC will "clarify" this rule even further so we know if this applies just to your upper body and not your feet/knees and where your head has to be.  So much grey area left up to the judgement of your strict or your lenient TO, it could vary wildly.  I am not a big fan of a super crouched-over starting position, but it would be silly not to let people start with their feet in a shooting stance, IMO.

AM

River Jordan

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Re: Rule Clarification: New info from TG Meeting at EOT 2016
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2016, 09:15:58 PM »
Can you crouch if you bring peroid correct starting blocks?