Rule change vote

[Tombstone]

There is a subject started on the rule change vote coming up this month. Please look at the wording and let me know what you think. I will take a vote at the next match on the 9th

[Jackalope]

It would be helpful if you would include the "wording" here so we know the latest form...

[Tombstone]

I was trying to use the Rules Discussion Forum but I can post it here too

VOTING ITEM INFORMATION
Proposed rule change:
Eliminate the automatic Stage DQ penalty for leaving the loading table with a cocked rifle.
In such instances, the shooter will be directed to point the rifle safely into the back berm, bring the hammer to full cock if it is in the half-cock/safety position, then pull the trigger.
If no round is fired, the shooter will be directed to finish staging firearms in order to start the stage (No Call).
If a round fires when the shooter pulls the trigger, the shooter will be assessed a Stage DQ and directed to proceed to the unloading table
 
Current rules/penalties:
Movement is not allowed with a loaded round under the hammer of any firearm. Movement is defined by the basketball “traveling” rule. Whenever a shooter has a loaded round under the hammer of a firearm in hand, at least one foot must remain in place on the ground. The first violation will result in a Stage Disqualification penalty. The second violation will result in a Match Disqualification penalty assessment. It is also not allowed to leave the loading table with a cocked, loaded firearm.
SHB p.12 – Participant Conduct - Safety
- Rifles may be staged with the magazine loaded, action closed, hammer fully down on the empty chamber (NOT the safety notch), with the muzzle pointing in a safe direction (adheres to the 170° rule).
SHB p.15 – Safety and Handling Conventions - Rifles
- Changing location/moving with a live round under a cocked hammer or firearm with the hammer down on a live round.
- Changing location with a long gun with the action closed and the hammer cocked.
SHB p.23 – Stage Disqualification Penalty (SDQ)
 
Definitions:
Cocked – hammer not fully down (full, half-cock or safety notch).
SHB P.43 – Glossary of Terms
Hammer down – hammer fully down at its final resting position.
Loaded Firearm – Any firearm with unfired round(s) in the action/chamber/magazine.
SHB p.44 – Glossary of Terms

[TN Mongo]

I'm for getting rid of the DQ for this action.

[Keystone]

Well, there is good merit in allowing the electronic voting by Territorial Governors and I'm glad to finally see SASS putting it to use.

Although I can understand the proposed change of allowing a shooter the opportunity to prove there isn't a live round chambered under a cocked rifle hammer, I can't say I'm completely satisfied with eliminating the extra layer of safety the current rule establishes. I would be interested to hear others opinions.

[Uncle Ethan]

Current rules/penalties:
"Movement is not allowed with a loaded round under the hammer of any firearm".
So with the rifle, a live round in the chamber. This would be true with the hammer cocked or not.
I am guessing in most, if not all,  cases a shooter bring a cocked rile to the line forgot to lower the hammer after making sure it was clear before loading.
I would vote yes for this change.

[Anita Margarita]

I am in favor of the rule change, especially for when the hammer is on half-cock.  That position is called the "safety notch," so how does it make sense to DQ someone for it?

I would not be against making it a minor safety penalty to come to the line with hammer back all the way (after the chamber is shown to be empty). Plus, of course, retaining the SDQ if there is a live round in the chamber. 

But if it is all or nothing, I vote to change the rule.

AM

[Tombstone]

On the TG forum at this time there are a lot of questions on the proposed rule change.
 
Also as Branchwater pointed out on the Ocoee Rangers forum this rule change will only apply to leaving the loading table with the rifle on safety notch or full cocked. It will not apply to the shotgun or if you move with a rifle with the lever closed and hammer back, to the unloading table, or anywhere on the line those will still be a SDQ.

Also, if you were to leave the loading table with the rifle cocked and lay it down to stage the SG, you go back to the rifle and the TO says to point it down range and pull the trigger and it goes bang, you now have two SDQ which is a MDQ. You moved with a round under the hammer and a cocked gun left your hand. Pale Wolf has chimed in and said in his opinion that would be two SDQ on one stage and would end up being a MDQ

Just a few things to think about before you all tell me how you want me to vote on this issue.

I would like to see the rule stay the same as it is now because due to the ambiguity this would cause due to the existing rules. Moving anywhere else with a closed and cocked gun is a SDQ, changing the rule could cause different calls to be made at different clubs where the rules get stretched already. It is really easy to drop the hammer at the loading table.

This is a yes/no vote the way it is worded. We may be able to change things down the road with the wording but the way it is stated I feel this would not be good for SASS. Just my humble opinion and I will vote the way the club wants me to.   

[Anita Margarita]

Hmm, that does add food for thought....   How do you explain the logic of why it is a penalty to walk with a closed, cocked gun at any other time, but not when leaving the loading table?  Even though it seems to be an overly harsh penalty, changing the rule would add inconsistency to an already confusing rule book.

So it would be a penalty if you walk with a cocked gun in the heat of the moment during a stage, but if you leave your hammer cocked at the loading table when you have all the time in the world to carefully handle your guns, it would not be a penalty.

I can argue both sides, so I guess I need to think about this some more.  Sounds like a good lunch time discussion topic for Tuesday/Saturday.

AM

(I still think the safety notch should be a no call.)

[Ocoee Red]

My personal opinion, I think also the penalty now is too harsh but agree that if the rifle trigger is pulled on the line it should be a SDQ but if it doesn’t go bang, I think it should be at least a minor safety. There are many scenarios to changing the rule.
However, I don’t think the TG’s overall will vote to change it